No SpacePilot support in 3DxWare 10 Beta

[BeatKitano]

Oh I didn't see the poll, I hope this not some other ploy and more like the right step. You've my apologies if this is the later.

[CPConsult]

I am very happy to wait for the release of the full driver to see if it works with my SpacePilot's. I will be, like many others have said, very vocal in other forums if they are not included in the driver. Please don't get me wrong, I have nothing but respect for the technical achievements of 3DC and for the fact they built the company from nothing to what it is today, but, not including an essentially new device is wrong.

They have made an official stand that they will not be supporting Legacy and that is what I and many others I feel are complaining about.

[Lgeo]

I spend a lot of money on space pilot not so long ago, and I feel very bad about how I was treated as a customer, and i am not going to be silent about how bad I'm upset about this.

I just hope that 3dC will correct this mistake very soon (hopefully in full version drivers).
Other than that I really appreciate what space pilot made Me do for now, and I can see mrbean point, but this is just an ugly marketing trick that is worthy of flaming.

Cheers All

[mrbean]

Hello guys,
For those that have not seen it, here is a poll/thread to vote. Enjoy, and I sincerely hope this is realised for all Spacepilot users.

[dnashj33]

Ok, let me try again: You bought a device with OFFICIAL driver support for 3d Applications, like CAD, et al.

This recently released driver is a BETA and nowhere was it stated in your product support documentation that this beta will support your device. Hence the reason I will await support for my currently unsupported devices, which I aquired well knowing what application support they enjoyed.

Should this beta driver at some point evolve into supporting my devices, good. If not, tough luck for me. Should I then want that functionality, then I should get a device that's supported once the OFFICIAL new driver is out - or get something from anther vendor, or whatever the case.

You have the freedom to buy what you want

Dude...since you took the liberty to lecture us on forum etiquette (saying we were being "dicks"...your words, not mine. Yeah, that's civil dialogue for you ), I'm going to return the favor and tell you to shut the hell up.

I'll say what's on my mind with or without your permission. It's well within our prerogative to voice anger or frustration with a company that charges $400 for a product and 18 months later arbitrarily declares it "legacy"...which is Bovine Scatology, and nothing but.

Do they think we customers are stupid, that we can't catch on to such underhanded schemes, and that we are just going to use the $400 device that works perfectly fine, as a paperweight now? Then rush out and spend another $400+ just because THEY want us to? This isn't a "new feature." This is a matter of supporting the products they make, period...even if they want users and studios to "upgrade."

If they want more customers they need to get off their duff and be AGGRESSIVELY proactive in supporting every 3D Application. I asked them about ZBrush and Mudbox support, and lazily they put the responsibility on the software developers!

I'm sorry, but offering customers limited support for applications and then trying to make their expensive hardware obsolete every 2-3 yrs is not the way to improve sales. Mudbox and ZBrush both have had SDK's for a while now and there is no legit reason why THEY couldn't take the lead in supporting the software...same goes for Modo.

As a customer, even after the purchase, I expect a company that charges $400 for a device to continuously expand the number of applications it supports...as part of the deal. I did not expect them to sit on their hands and lock me in to applications that were supported at the time of purchase. That is what you are saying and it's utterly absurd.

Again, **********

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Edit (moderator): removed foul language (see BOARD RULES under "Be respectful").

[philnolan3d]

While I'm still not happy with the situation, I would like to point out that AFAIK this doesn't make our current device useless, we just have to live with old drivers.

[DrivenKeys]

First of all, keep in mind its a beta, they can change it. But they're not going to listen unless we all get together with organized & meaningful feedback. This company has struggled with user-development for years; I commend the management at 3DConnexion for finally putting the company in the right general direction. The current line of products is awesome, and It's obvious that it will succeed with this software. Please everyone keep in mind that this driver is the most significant development in 3DConnexion history. It's late coming, but they finally listened to they're screaming customers. Unfortunately, they probably spent the money we SpacePilot users provided before arriving to this revelation.

Planned obsolescence sucks, but is necessary. That said, 3DConnexion would really drop the ball not to support the SpacePilot in this newest driver package. I completely understand the need for new revenue, to that extent I would even pay a reasonable fee to have this driver package adapted to the SpacePilot. I have convinced a few ppl to buy 3DConnexion, and I personally would feel betrayed and embarrassed to point friends down a deadend path. Some of them chose not to buy the 'Flagship' model, so it's even worse when I spent more than them to find myself left out of the fun I introduced them to.

Most of our favorite companies force these changes. Someone said 'Wacom doesn't do this'. Actually they do. Although they still offer driver support for older tablets, the new drivers always have features that won't work on older tablets, NOT b/c of hardware issues, but they just won't write the code. My Intuos3 can't use the new radial menus designed for the Intuos4, and my Intuos2 can't switch between screens like my Intuos3. Still, Wacom includes the basic drivers so it always worked like it DID. 3DConnexion still offers drivers that will allow the SpacePilot to work as it always has. It's not a paperweight yet. For years, it has sat here collecting dust unless I'm in Maya. I've hated that, but it was still worth the price.

Someone else said 3DConnexion doesn't make the only 3D mouse. That's kind of like saying Windows isn't the only os for non-mac pc's. Yeah, we may have a few scarce options, but nothing else with the benefits of 3DConnexion. I've seen that European one that looks like it uses 3DConnexion's guts, but it's only for left-hand use. I mouse/tablet with my left, 3DConnexion is my only choice. I'd threaten to boycott, but that would be pointless. The company knows it, and they also know how much professionals pay for new software every other year or so. They want that money, eventually that's what pays for the community anyway. Yes, it's a d*ck move to disable the community they once supported. Welcome to business.

I'm not defending 3DConnexion's exclusion of this essential function, I'm just saying look at Apple, Microsoft, Sony and almost every other long-term electronics company. The market is adapting backwards compatibility and retrofit as bad practice. If 3DConnexion ignores SpacePilot with the official release, we're on the same boat as iPad 1 customers. If the largest retailer in the world does this every year, why would anyone else treat consumers differently? It sucks, it speaks against everything that art and community are supposed to stand for. Let's hope 3Dconnexion can rise above this petty practice.

[dnashj33]

They can try to make something obsolete by blocking it from being recognized in future drivers, and tell us they "are supporting legacy items"...but that doesn't mean I have to fall for it. It's the same tech that's in the Explorer and Navigator.

They are deliberately trying to prevent you and me from being able to use future drivers that would allow us to use software that they should have taken the initiative and supported years ago. It's not Mudbox, ZBrush, or Modo's responsibility to write drivers for proprietary hardware. IT IS 3DCONNEXION'S RESPONSIBILITY to do so, and they have laid down on the job in this regard.

Those of us who purchased an item have been waiting for them to get with the program and be proactive in this regard. The first step they make in that effort, what do they do...suddenly tell us our devices are paperweights and we need to fork over another $400+ just to get the support we've been waiting for them to do all this time.

[DragonFist]

Okay, I've gotten some feedback regarding my pointing that muddiman's interest in developing a community set of drivers and 3Dconnexion's discouragement of it. That I was somehow twisting it into a plot of 3Dconnexions to prevent users from having the functionality of these devices.

First off, what was done, was done. I don't care if it was part of a plot or not. What matters to me, as a customer, is that I have been trying to make this device useful beyond a small bundle of apps for a year now. None of the current solutions work reliably with win7 64.

I was very happy at first with 3Dconnexion's announcement at the time. I was very excited and waiting patiently even when other board members weren't very patient about the apparent delays.

I wasn't upset until the 28th of March when, after all those months of waiting, I was told that I my device would not be supported.

I'm sorry if anyone finds my upset "offensive". Actually, no, I'm not sorry. I'm upset. I don't care if you don't like it. Support my device and I'll be happy again. Until then, I'm not a happy of customer who bought one of your devices around a year ago and apparently that's all it takes to no longer be a customer worth supporting.

In the meantime, I've gotta tell ya, I can't understand how you didn't see this coming. If you had read the 12+ threads of uses of the varied controllers you provide, you would have known that there were a significant amount of spacepilot users waiting on the functionality and asking for the past few months if, indeed, we would be supported. These questions weren't answered until within days of the beta release.

How could you not expect upset to occur. It is like telling your kids your going to Disney World and then at the last minute telling one of them they're not included and can't go even knowing how excited they were about the trip. A parent wouldn't do that, because they know exactly what will happen.

Well, it happened!!!!

Writing me messages that you're offended by my reaction isn't going to change my reaction.

[DrivenKeys]

I'm angry, too. I was one of the earlier SpacePilot buyers, patiently waiting over the years for the right code to be written. I've been angry about this for years, there's just no point in starting another thread of bickering & backtalk. Just as has been pointed out here, that's been done to death. Endless repetition of the same message dilutes that statement's potency.

We all agree that excluding SpacePilot was a bad decision, that's why we're on this thread. 3DConnexion has no obligation to maintain forums that badmouth their own company, so it could be seen as pretty cool that they're supporting these conversations in the first place. I do miss the open-source feeling of the last generation of threads, but that's over now. -Probably because those threads drowned in pointless emotional argument!

This is corporate business. Let's give them some concise feedback that will make strong, business-related points. Then the developers have something relevant to propose for the budget modifications to their bosses. They gave us this forum to improve the product, let's not waste it.

I agree with much that has already been said, overall this is bad business. Here's a point I haven't seen yet: There are thousands of SpacePilots already out there, and they look like a current product. Just because it's not made anymore doesn't mean it isn't an advertising tool for the current generation. Most of my friends are fascinated by this amazing tool I have, but quickly loose interest when all I can demo is Maya and Google Earth. Everyone wants a customizable universal controller. If I could have shown them how cool and programmable this thing is, several of them would have purchased the base 3DConnexion puck...at least at it's old price!

What's up with that, anyway? How did it go from $60 Amazon/Ebay specials to double that??? The others seem worth the price to me, but the puck with 2 buttons is not. I was almost in the market for one for my laptop, but not now. Xpadder with a game controller will continue as my portable solution.

I digress. Again, overall I think 3DConnexion is awesome. I can't continue to endorse them until they fix the SpacePilot issue, but I'm aware that my endorsement isn't their biggest priority. Neither is any of ours, to be honest, our money is spent. We all gambled on this and bought a product we knew wasn't complete in our eyes. Let's all get together and convince 3DConnexion to ensure that wasn't a waste.

[DrivenKeys]

Oh yeah, my other point: As with all revolutionary tech, some day another company is going to rip off this concept. 3DConnexion will eventually face real competition, and when that day comes, I will remember this company's loyalty to me.

[DragonFist]

Oh yeah, my other point: As with all revolutionary tech, some day another company is going to rip off this concept. 3DConnexion will eventually face real competition, and when that day comes, I will remember this company's loyalty to me.

Same here.

[akwebb1]

First it was my NuLooq Navigator that was discontinued not long after I purchased it because they competed with the new 3dfxWare line of products. I went ahead and bought a SpacePilot to replace it and have been happy with it. Now to be left out of this update and obviously any future updates (aka. No Longer Supported!) is a bit much. I like others have been waiting for this type of functionality for a while. I did not purchase it expecting that functionality so I am not losing anything but support. It still stinks and seems to be the way that Logitech works these days.

I also have an Orbit MP WebCam from Logitech that they decided to not support on Windows 7 to force a purchase of the newer version. With some creative installation techniques using their new installation package I was able to get most of the advanced functionality back which just shows that they were able to support it the whole time but they prevent it from installing.

Both the Orbit Webcam and the SpacePilot are premium products that carried a premium price with what I was hoping was long term support. I have been happy with the quality of the products but without continued support, Logitech products are not an option for me anymore. I will not be replacing them with other Logitech products when they cease to function. It's too bad since I have not been able to find competing products with similar features but I can live without them and for sure so can my wallet.

[dnashj33]

First it was my NuLooq Navigator that was discontinued not long after I purchased it because they competed with the new 3dfxWare line of products. I went ahead and bought a SpacePilot to replace it and have been happy with it. Now to be left out of this update and obviously any future updates (aka. No Longer Supported!) is a bit much. I like others have been waiting for this type of functionality for a while. I did not purchase it expecting that functionality so I am not losing anything but support. It still stinks and seems to be the way that Logitech works these days.

I also have an Orbit MP WebCam from Logitech that they decided to not support on Windows 7 to force a purchase of the newer version. With some creative installation techniques using their new installation package I was able to get most of the advanced functionality back which just shows that they were able to support it the whole time but they prevent it from installing.

Both the Orbit Webcam and the SpacePilot are premium products that carried a premium price with what I was hoping was long term support. I have been happy with the quality of the products but without continued support, Logitech products are not an option for me anymore. I will not be replacing them with other Logitech products when they cease to function. It's too bad since I have not been able to find competing products with similar features but I can live without them and for sure so can my wallet.

I was thinking the same thing.

There is NO way Microsoft is going to suddenly stop supporting their older mice, keyboards and cameras from functioning with future Windows version...so count me among those who won't be buying anything from Logitech from here on out.

In fact, this has me so mad, that I think I may put up a video on Youtube (with Logitech and 3DConnexion tags...so it can spread pretty fast and wide) about this underhanded practice to discourage any viewers from purchasing from either company.

[BeatKitano]

While I perfectly understand your frustration dnash33, I would wait to see the response of 3dconnexion to the poll...

I say, they play their part, we play fair. Of course I can't stop you from doing that, but I think we should wait to see how the things go.